As from April 2013 my Journey in Investing is to create Retirement Income for Life till 80 years old for two over market cycles of Bull and Bear.

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This blog is authored by an old multi-bagger blue chips stock picker uncle from HDB heartland!

"The market is not your mother. It consists of tough men and women who look for ways to take money away from you instead of pouring milk into your mouth." - Dr. Alexander Elder

"For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them." - Aristotle

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Sunday, 21 May 2017

The Tale Of Three Old Men In The Same Office Space (True Story) - 2

Read? The Tale Of Three Old Men In The Same Office Space (True Story)

After reading this ---> Exclude this, exclude that...

Lets return to the HDB heartlands.

Even without a 2nd investment/rental property, those who treat the humble HDB flat as an investment would play the 2 bites of the cherry, upgrade, downgrade game.

Look around your relatives, neighbours, colleagues and classmates. There are lots of annecdotal evidence. Verify for yourself!


The Mind or psychological part of investing is quite powerful, isn't it.

CW8888: Hmmm ...

Back to real person, real people in his ex-office cubicle


Residential Property as Retirement Fund

Both of them took the path of their residential property as their retirement fund.

57 stopped speculating in stocks and took the property path. He has upgraded from three room HDB to 5 room HDB and currently still have a few years of mortgage to go.

He couldn't meet his MSS (BRS) at age of 55 and automatically has to pledge  50% of his HDB flat to meet MSS (BRS).

CW8888 vs. 57 Senior 

CW8888 with no second bite of cherry but allows his CPF OA to compound at 2.5% rate while 57 Senior took second bite of cherry by upgrading to 5 RM HDB Sengkang.

Even this 57 Senior finally took down downgrade game.

Since it is not million dollar property; Uncle8888 doing the Maths doesn't think that he is going to have fatter retirement fund.


  1. Second bite at the Cherry may turn out to be costly affair for retirement. Not everybody wins!

  2. i think to win, must downgrade when when the market is relatively good.

    i have downgraded to the biggest 4-RM HDB flat which just MOP.
    (Down graded from maisonnette lol.)

    i have been thinking that my only son don't have to buy another HDB flat if he doesn't wants to.

    Besides of course, we made some money.

    1. Sorry, to prevent misunderstanding of time factor, i have downgraded since 15 to 18 years ago.

  3. Also read what i commended in SMOL about 2 bites of the Cherries.

    1. After 1994, the rapid price escalation of HDB flats; the extra-ordinary success stories of large investment gains from second bite of Cherry should be less.

    2. Ya lol!

      Even the G wants to share in the the 2 bites of the cherries.

      That is you must pay a levy when you sell your 1st cherry or 2nd cherry.

      i opted to pay the levy for my 1st cherry because it was only a 3-RM flat.

      i have lost touched with what the G has been doing now.

      Anyway the G shifted goal posts for almost anything as and when they like.

      And of course, most of the times is for G's advantages.

      Have G shifted any goal posts for our CPF AND CPFIS?

      Must keep up or will be losing out, you know!

    3. Your case of second bite is still under the era of Buy Low. Sell High. After 1994 is the era of Buy High. Sell Higher; not so easy to make large gains liao!

    4. Incidentally, i take it as you were not in the Buy Low. Sell High era.

      Even then you actually still can take the 2nd bite of the cherry by buying a same type of flat(4-RM to 4RM).

      So after MOP, you can sell the 2nd cherry anytime by down grading or even buy the same 4-RM to 4-Rm flat in the resal market.

      i think you still can make some money and your flat may have many more lease years.

      On the other hand it may affect your stock investment's result.

      For better or worse, only you can estimate.

      But i think the most important part is - "Have you slept well at night all these years?)

    5. 2nd bite of the cherry, you should have make some money already as you did not upgrade due to your own circumstances.

    6. Quote : "So after MOP, you can sell the 2nd cherry anytime by down grading or even buy the same 4-RM to 4-Rm flat in the resal market."

      Real Ex-neighbour. Real 4 rm to 4 rm in re-sale market earning the difference in lousy location.

      Read? Home for Living and not for profit taking - Part 2

    7. Sometime we like to think we are smarter; but in life sometime blur blur and get through life without too much worry and poorer is far better

  4. Uncle 8888,

    As HDB is 99-year leasehold, shall we plan, long before the retirement, to upgrade to a new flat once our current HDB flat is over 30 year old ?


    1. When we apply for HDB flat in our late 20s or early 30s; by the time the HDB flat is over 30; we are over 60s. Not sure it is wise to get into debt at this age. At 60s, we should be retiring soon as debt free and better to see open over accumulating bigger wealth. LOL!

  5. Nowadays with levy, very hard to gain with 2nd cherry. Even worse when your 1st cherry is in non-mature town and your target 2nd cherry is in mature town or is a bigger flat.

    Can only win if 2nd cherry is same-size or smaller flat in similar town or cheaper town e.g. 5rm non-mature to 4rm non-mature, or 4rm mature to 4rm non-mature.

    If same-size BTO to another same-size BTO in similar town, then can only breakeven. This may be useful in a rising property market if you want to simply clear your mortgage immediately. E.g. I have a relative who sold his BTO 4rm in non-mature estate and got another BTO 4rm in same estate in 2005. He had to pay the resale levy. The remaining sales proceeds from his 1st BTO could fully cover the cost of 2nd BTO, including basic renovations. But nothing much left. At least his family had peace of mind of fully-paid housing which is utmost important to them as they are not well educated and danger of losing jobs or downgrading pay is very real for them.

    1. Like any investment; taking a second bite at Cherry for financial gains is an investment. Market timing over market cycle will determine who will make money and who will LPPL.

  6. CW,

    1. You win! You used data point of 2 to make your case. That's DOUBLE of what most others do :)

    2. In stocks, even with all your experience, you have shared recently you've missed the train during 2009.

    In property, you've missed some trains but you don't care since property not in your radar mah!

    3. We just need to outrun the hunter beside us.

    I think some readers may think twice standing beside you when it comes to DIY Singapore stocks only - you panda koala specialist mah!

    But when it comes to property or overseas socks, based on what you've wrote, I think some have no qualms standing beside you!



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