She is 62 and Uncle8888 is 61+ After every market cycles; we are older; and after a few market cycles we are already or nearly senior citizens. When we have enough net worth to last our lifetime; do we still want to ride the BULK of our net worth in the stock market cycles of vulgarities without the support of earned income from our human asset. Although, some of us may continue to work free lance, part-time or pastime when our health still allow us to be active; but we are likely to be on lower income which may be just enough to cover our own personal allowances e.g. Uncle8888's One Year After Retirement From Full-time Job As Employee. His 8 HWW (Hours Work Week) can cover his own personal allowance for daily meals, monthly transportation cost and mobile plan; and hopefully he is qualified for next year Workfare MA top up to cover his Medi-shield premium. After the last Bull Market in 2007; he has learnt something from Mr. Market about the true value of our net worth. How much of our net worth is exposed to Mr Market's moods and vulgarities? We can be millionaire at Point X with large exposure to the stock market; but when Mr Market changed his mood after Point X; we may just lose that title in term of months if not weeks! How do we define our success in investing after Point X in our lifetime of investing in the stock market?
As investors, we have to take a position in the marketplace in order to make money. Remember that we are not in the market to predict the STI. We are here to make money from the markets. Predicting the STI direction without actually putting any money into the market will only help our ego and not our wallets... unless of course, you make your money from teaching others how to invest and you need to be seen to be correct in your analysis. To be honest, if you make a prediction any which way, you are bound to be correct, sooner or later. So, don't put any value on those who tell you, I told you so...... because you too can do the same. Make a prediction. Wait long enough and you will be 100% correct. Just don't fool yourself that you are good at predicting the market direction. The proof is in the amount of money you make by sticking to your position. Real investors are those who make real money from the markets. They must always have a position in the marketplace - whether this is bullish or bearish ... they cannot be wishy washy. You cannot make real money if you are indecisive. Real investors know that they will lose money if they read the direction of the market wrongly and hence, real investors always protect their downside by only investing with money that they can set aside for years. Finally, always remember that real investors make their money from the markets directly. If it is in their DNA to share, they will do so freely... and will never sell you a get-rich-quick investment course! For those of us who make money directly from the markets, we know how difficult it is for the novice investor to start investing. The least we can do is to show you the ropes free of charge. We will never want to take any part of your savings just to show you the ropes. This money is needed by you to start off your investment journey. Hence, my conscience will certainly not allow me to take such money. I rather share freely, or not at all. The best example of a real investor is of course, Warren Buffett.
On first look; it appeared that Uncle8888 has encountered his first lost decade in the stock market with little growth in his investment portfolio. What is difference between 11 Oct 2007 (Bull Market STI at 3,876) vs 14 Nov 2017 (Bullish market STI at 3,399)? Lost decade?
Singapore Man of Leisure13 November 2017 at 08:55:00 GMT+8
I don't care about labels. Don't sell how to take profits?
Although I am teasing and debating with you - we both are closer to the same definition - we both see and acknowledge the "S" ;)
CW sides with you in "words"; but his multiple rounds in "actions" speak louder! LOL!
We both know WHY CW will NEVER sell his multi-baggers out COMPLETELY like the US librarian above even if STI zooms up to 10,000. It has nothing to do with fundamentals or technicals. Or lack of guts or conviction.
Shhh... Don't say it out loud ;)
Young people too respectful and courteous to you and CW. So I play the "rude" idiot role here to have a bit of fun playing out the Socratic method.
Maybe some bei kambings reading our debates can benefit and figure out for themselves what does Buy-and-Hold really means - especially the "Hold" part :)
We make a good 相声 pair!
Buy And Hold Or Buy, Sell, and Hold? Is Uncle8888 doing B&H or what?
Merlion style retail investor?
Having both Realized and Unrealized paper profits & losses and including accumulated dividends as investment gains. or like Temperament said Rojak investor! Does Labelling guide or help us in our investing journey and avoid getting into confusion or dilemma over market cycles on what to do next ? See the below diagram closely and what did you really see?
When you are SINGLE without having to support any dependents or don't really have any close family members; of course, you can follow your heart to do whatever you like or go wherever you want. You want to live the life of Freegan also no issue. There are no immediate family members to stop you or shake their heads in disbelief! Singles can don't change their underwear for five days. Nobody care!
Uncle8888 did once to transfer from CPF OA to SA and then realized .. oh dear and better stopped it! One and only once! Luckily; at that time personal finance and investment bloggers DID NOT EXIST yet to cheer the power of additional 1.5% compounding interests in CPF SA to reach FRS as soon as possible to secure RA well in advance. For his $1M in CPF OA; 53% or $528K was from mandatory CPF contributions as employees from Aug 1977 to Sep 2016. It took him 39 years up to age of 60 to accumulate this sum! How many more years from 60 can he still work harder to accumulate the next $472K to reach that $1M mark?
But, now he can congratulate himself of that decision made to stop transferring CPF OA to SA since he had really made his mind to invest and then spent days and nights learning over decades to become one competent retail investor. In investing; your account size really matters! - CW8888
Stronger saver or investor. Now, you may understand why he went for larger CPFIS war chest instead of larger CPF SA.
Read? I Took All My Money Out of the Stock Market and It Feels Amazing Thanks to Temperament for pointing out this article. One good example of not following the 3% or 4% retirement rule? CW8888: Once we have bulk of our net worth exposed to future market cycles; how many of us dare to claim that we are able to sleep well when market crashes and wipe off 40 to 60% of our net worth?
Do I think the stock market is about to crash? Am I afraid that with Donald Trump at the helm of our ship of state the economy is at risk of going down like the Titanic? Sure, that could happen. But that’s not why I took my dough off the table. Back in the early 1980s, I inherited $50,000. At the time, that was so much more money than I’d ever had before that I decided I’d better educate myself about financial matters. After much research, I put that money — and a percentage of the money I’ve made since as a writer and part-time librarian — into a low-cost index fund. Specifically, I invested in a Vanguard balanced fund that invests 60% of its assets in the stock market and 40% in bonds. And I left it there. This turned out to be a good strategy. Back then, the S&P 500 index of U.S. stocks was at 208. Now it’s closing in on 2,600. Nevertheless, I cashed it all in last week. Now all my money is stashed in U.S. Treasuries, Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (or TIPS bonds), and laddered CDs, which, in the years to come, I can count on to earn me essentially nada. Why would I do this? CW8888: How many of us have that level of confidence that we have enough of net worth to last our lifetime; and stop or drastic slow down to accumulate more? I once figured out exactly how much money I would need to live on — not lavishly, but comfortably — for the rest of my life. I promised myself that once I had that amount, I would actually do just that — take my money out of the market and live on it for the rest of my life. Last week, I reached that goal. I’m 62. I’ve spent decades caring about the market. I counted on it to make me enough money so that I’d be able to cash in my chips and walk away when I hit retirement age. And so it did. And now? It’s time for this librarian to declare victory and get the hell out. The day after I cashed out, the market soared, as if to say, “Ha ha Roz, the joke’s on you.” Did I feel some regret? Of course I did! Had I waited just a day, my bank account would be fatter than it is now. But that’s not the point. The point is no longer amassing as much money as I can. It’s peace of mind. And that’s what I’ve got. Timing is everything. But you can’t time the market. I have no idea whether it’s about to go up or down. But I no longer care. I now have enough money to live on for the rest of my life with absolutely no concern about what the market is up to. The Dow Jones industrial average could zip up to 30,000 (and I hope for the sake of those of you who are still in the game that it does.) Or it could crash and burn tomorrow. Not my problem. That part of my life is over. I’ll never again experience the elation of a market that is rocketing into the stratosphere. Or that sick feeling you get as the market is “correcting” and your net worth is circling the drain. All done. But if the market totally tanks tomorrow, you ask, and stocks become such a crazy bargain that I’d be a fool not to put at least some of my money back into that mutual fund that served me so well, wouldn’t I? Of course I would! I’m no fool. Plus, the one thing I’ve learned about the market over the past three decades is “what goes down, eventually comes back up.” But until that happens, I’m staying put. And if it never happens? I’m still set. So how much money have I got? I’m not exactly a millionaire. But I do have a nest egg in the high six figures, a modest home with no mortgage, and zero debt. That might not impress you, but it’s good enough for me. Now that I’ve made my nut, I have no big plans to buy a yacht or travel around the world or even splurge on a few extra outfits from Eileen Fisher. I plan to continue to work at my local public library and write essays. Which is to say that I’ll continue to do the work I love, which provides me with a small but steady income. (And, at age 70, I’ll start collecting Social Security, which, both because I’m an optimist because I believe in the lobbying power of the AARP, I fully expect to be, like me, alive and well.) I’m not saying you should follow my lead. You could be more of a risk taker than I am. (Most people are.) Or more worried about inflation. (I’m betting on the TIPS to shelter me from that.) You might have more expenses, or more people who rely on you financially. Your own goal could be to leave a bucket of money to your heirs. (I’m leaving that task to my wealthy ex-husband.) Whatever your financial goal is, I hope you reach it. CW8888: Invest well! We will be on our way to build sustainable retirement income for life (with draw down strategy; it will be easier) The stock market has been very good to me. Without money in the market, there’s no way that this part-time library worker and freelance writer would now have enough money to live on into her 90s. But, as the song goes, you’ve got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. And for me, the time to fold them has come. I’m out of here. Best wishes. Enjoy the ride.
Investing Camp (C) : Earn more, Save more and Invest for growth-dividends or capital gains!
Investing Camp (D) : Earn more (Seldom mention), Save harder and harder and then invest for income!
Most commercially vested writers/bloggers are likely to advocate (D) as it is within our control to tighten ourselves more and save more; but to earn more that is not within our control and too difficult to set earning targets. Saving targets are easier to achieve as there more ways to save money.
Who are likely to be in Camp C or D?
You can observe this investing behavior in the personal investment blogosphere.
Uncle8888 doesn't follow the 3% or 4% retirement rule! After researching the cyberspace and also reading available NLB's books on retirement planning; he is convinced that his three taps model to build retirement income for life is more sustainable across market cycles as he doesn't have to draw down on his investment portfolio pay for household living expenses during market low. Any draw down on our investment account size will make very difficult to recover. In long term investing; our account size really matters! Read? DIY Annuity (Jan 2018 to Dec 2038) With CPF OA
Greed escalation happens to yourself and your friendly kind broker who is the party to help you to make more money in the stock market. When client goes bankrupt; blame who? Pity who? How did this pile of trading records happen?
Of course; it takes two hands to clap! Escalation of Greed from his broker and himself!
1. His Buy limit : $20K --> $50K --> $100K --> $200K 2. His Payment due : T+3 --> T+5 (His friendly and kind broker is enabling him to make money from contra trading) 3. Commission : 0.275% --> 0.22% (His broker has voluntarily lower his trading overheads)
I am 61 yrs old uncle living in HDB heartland who has achieved financial independence @ 56 and retired @ 60 from full-time job as employee.
Single household income since 1995 with three children. Eldest son and daughter are now working and youngest son still in his 2nd year uni in SUTD.
I have been doing long-term investing and short-term trading in Singapore stock market only since Jan 2000 so I am that Panda or Koala in the investment world; but I am still surviving well in the wild.
I am now executing my Three Taps solution model to maintain sustainable retirement income for life till 2038.
Last updated: 3 Sep 2017
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